Living with "Very Very Muchness": A conversation with Dr. Kim Maas

Twanna Henderson: Welcome to T Time Spiritual Conversations for, with, and about women. I'm your host, Twanna Henderson and as always, I want to remind you to like and share this broadcast. Well, I am so excited about chatting with today's guest. My guest is Kim Maas. Kim is a sought after international speaker. Author and Christian minister.

She is the president and CEO of Kim Maas Ministries, the founder and director of Women of Our Time, and the host of the Move Forward with Dr. Kim Maas podcast and TV show. She can also be heard each month live on social media with the Voice of the Shepherds. , Kim is ordained with the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel and the Apostolic Network of Global Awakening.

She earned a doctorate in ministry at United Theological Seminary and a master of divinity at King's University. And she and her husband, Mike, and my husband's name is Mike too, Northern Idaho, and they have three married children and a growing number of grandchildren. Kim, welcome to T Time.

Kim M. Maas: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

What a joy to meet you and to be on your show. It's such a privilege. thanks.

Twanna Henderson: Well, it's so good to have you and I have to say, I think you're my first guest from Idaho. Oh, yeah.

Kim M. Maas: I love Idaho. Oh.

Twanna Henderson: Is it Ethel? Ethel that you're from? Ethel,

Kim M. Maas: yeah. It's called, it's Ethel and we have probably about 1, 200 people in our town.

And we live about 30 minutes from a much bigger town, a small city, but a bigger town in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. And, , up in the, up in the north, just below Canada, lots of trees and mountains and lakes and snow in the winter. And I love it here.

Twanna Henderson: Well, I found out some very interesting information about Ethel that happened a couple of years ago.

te of Idaho. Yes. In Ethel in: 2022

Kim M. Maas: Yes. Yes. It's only about five minutes from my house.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. You all are doing some big things.

Kim M. Maas: Right. Exactly.

Twanna Henderson: I know you have written several books and I'm so looking forward to, kind of delving more into your latest book, which is entitled "Finding our Muchness: Inheriting audacious boldness from women of the Bible".

Now, the concept of muchness in your book, it may be kind of unfamiliar, to many because that's not a word that we usually use.

Kim M. Maas: That's right.

Twanna Henderson: Can you share the background of this idea of muchness and, and how it translates to our relationship with God?

in my vocabulary really since: 2010

It's a: 2010

And in this movie, , Alice in Wonderland has grown up. She has been through, you know, the human experience. She has been through suffering. She has been through loss. Her father has died. With him, all the dreams that they shared has died and she has lost her identity. And so she's being married off and her fiance tells her, you know, , Keep your dreams to yourself, keep your visions to yourself.

And when in, when, and when in doubt, Keep silent. Well, isn't this what the devil says to all of us women? You know, when in doubt keep silent and he brings us doubt all the time about who we are and so she's she's Disturbed by this and she falls down the hole again, of course as she finds herself in Wonderland And at one point she's walking with the Mad Hatter through the land that is devastated by the dragon and the evil Red Queen, and I mean it is barren land, it is dried up, it's uninhabitable, and Wonderland is waiting for their champion, and the scroll, the prophetic scroll says that it's, it is Alice, and Alice doesn't know who she is

anymore. She's lost her, her force, her boldness, her willingness to take a risk, her strength because of the suffering and the confusion that she has lived through. I mean, really, isn't that prophetic, right? And so he's, he is quoting, Mad Hatter is quoting to her the poem from Louis Stephen's book, about the Jabberwocky and the slaying, how Alice slays the dragon.

And she says, that's not me. I'm not slaying anything. And he looks at her and he points at her guts. Because, you know, it takes guts to follow Jesus, women of God. It takes guts and strength to fulfill the call that is on your life. And every single one of you have a call on your life. And he, he points to her guts and he said, what happened to you?

You used to be much more, much here. You've lost your muchness. And so since that time I have thought about this concept of how we have women as women have lost our muchness because of the confusion and the suffering and the losses we have got through, gone through. Well, then I found it in scripture in Deuteronomy six, five in the famous passage that's called the Shema.

It says, , is Israel is told from the Lord, love the Lord, your God. You know this passage. Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, with all of your mind, and then with all of your, and the Hebrew there is your me'od, me'od, and this Hebrew word literally is translated your very, very much. Your muchness, love the Lord your God with all your very, very muchness, which is the strength.

It's really about the strength and the force of everything that you are, that God has created you to be. And God says, love Him with all of that. And then Jesus, He takes it further. He says, there's two great commandments. And those commandments are for both men and women. And he says, love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, your mind, your soul and your strength, your very, very muchness.

And then love others as yourself. Love your neighbor. as yourself. And this is the concept of muchness. There is a call on our life to fulfill the great commissions that were given to both male and female and to love the Lord and love others. However, that is called to work out in the great commission to fulfill the call of God on your life with everything that is in you, the full force of who you are and what you are called to do.

Twanna Henderson: That is so good. That is so good. You know, Kim, oftentimes as women, we struggle with, the idea of muchness. Can you share in your book about, not being selected for the gifted and talented program and afraid and, and not, , and one of the great lies that women often believe is that I'm not to, I'm to this or I'm not enough of that.

How can we begin to, replace this lie of the enemy with who God claims we are?

Kim M. Maas: Yes, I love that you brought up that story. I was suffering. I mean, suffering with imposter syndrome. I just felt like, you know, God was, God was beginning to open doors for me and he's placing me before thousands to preach.

And I, and I felt so inadequate and I felt so not gifted compared to the person sitting next to me to me and all the other speakers and the, and the, the, you know, the big, the big celebrity people. And, and I, and I felt so small and I, I was struggling with that and cried a lot and crying out to God. And then he showed me this picture of when I was little and I, I didn't get chosen for the gifted and talented.

I, I was taken for three days and I was tested and I was having so much fun cause you know, I'm a kid and I don't know what's going on. No one told me that they thought maybe I was gifted and talented. And so, and so for three days I'm taken out of class and I'm having this fun time and I think this is so great.

And isn't that how it should be with Jesus? You know, we, it should be, it should be that we just know that he's in us and what he's going to do with our lives. It should just be just all about following him and having fun in it and seeing it as an adventure and a, and a grand journey and seeing all that he's doing through us, the miracles, he's going to do this.

The people's lives were going to be changed because we dared to follow Jesus because we know how big he is. But instead I'm feeling so inadequate and insecure. And he shows me this picture and he showed me how, when I got to class, back to class, my mother was told that I came half a point short, but Oh, if I, if I tried really hard.

I could keep up with those who really were gifted and talented. You hear the lie of the enemy. You have many of us are told that, well, you're just a little short of that. You know, you're not really gifted. You're not really talented, but that's not what scripture says to us. Scripture says that he has given us everything we need.

He's filled us with the Holy Spirit who is the gifted and talented one. And he says in Corinthians that, that you are not lacking in any gift because he has given you the Holy Spirit who has every gift. And so here's the truth of the matter, the truth of the matter. And I find this, you'll hear this throughout my book.

If you read it, that every woman in that book, none of them were right. None of them had what it takes. In fact, they were all wrong. They were too young, they were too old, they had horrific or demonic pasts, yet they were able to overcome all of that believing in God who does not lie, choosing faith in Him.

Through whom nothing is impossible. So the truth is we're never going to be just right. Women of God, listen, it's not dependent on your works, on your human abilities. Actually, it's your human limitation that gives God all the glory When he does a miracle through your life, it's not dependent on your works. It's not dependent on your ethnicity.

It's not dependent on your beauty. It's not dependent on how smart you are. It's not dependent on your education or your financial standing. It's not dependent on your human strength and ingenuity, but it's dependent on his grace and the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Remember, it's not by might, it's not by power, your own human strength and energy, it's by my spirit, says the Lord, by which the impossible becomes possible.

Listen, this is about your muchness. This is about your very, very much that God puts in you by being in you because he's in you by his Holy Spirit. And this is the muchness that we take back. And this is what the book is all about. Getting back what's missing, your power, your force, the confidence of who God says you are and what he has

called you to do that got lost in whatever confusion, trouble and uncertainty that you have lived through. You are not born to find a comfortable place. You were born to be a champion, to push back darkness, to overcome the works of the enemy, not only in your life and in your family's life. But everyone that you're called to this is this is what much is about and my book is about seeing. That not only every woman in the bible overcame and took back her muchness and then fulfilled the call of God on her life, but women throughout history and God in every in every story of the women He shows us the Holy Spirit highlights that we have his permission to do this

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, that is so good.

You know, and you know, we have to really be so intentional about walking in that because there are so many different things that tell us otherwise. There are so many distractions. There's so many, influences that that tell us something else. There's so many, uh, , You know, things that run in our minds from our past, that things that we've been told all those different things that we have to really be intentional.

I know, you know, you said speaking prophetically, you write that God is going to make a great movement among women in our generation and, and many others agree with you, Kim, why is now the time that women will be stepping into a greater authority than before?

Kim M. Maas: I'm so glad you asked me that because we, I mean, we live in such an exciting time and I know, I, I know, I mean, I don't deny reality just because I am a prophetic minister and I am a preacher.

I don't deny reality. I see all the trouble in the world. I understand that we are in a time where we just came through such difficulty through the pandemic and all of these various political things in our nation and in all the nations. And we have been, the world is traatized right now. You know, we have more people suffering from trauma, suffering from depression, suffering from anxiety, more.

We have a higher rate of suicide and people on antidepressants than ever before it is unprecedented. We are living in a time of, , an unprecedented rate of change and it's not over yet. And people like they can't find their footing, you know, and we, in our nation, we're about to, we're, we're about to suffer through.

I was going to say, we're about to face another election time that's going to be volatile. And there's so many questions. There's so many people they're checking out because like, I can't, I can't, they have like a traa fatigue. Like I can't, I can't take any more of this. And so they're checking out, but this is not a time to check out.

he Baptist until now, Matthew: 11:12

There is a violent pushback and opposition from the enemy. And most people who don't understand, they go, Oh, this is so hard and I can't deal with it. But those of us who are prophetic, we understand that it means that God is moving. Listen, we are on the beginning. We are in the beginning, we are on the precipice of a great revival, a great move of God.

Every time there has been a move of God, you can find it throughout revival history, women have been on the forefront of a revival move. I have been prophesying for the last six years that there was going to be a great move of God, and within that move there was going to be another move of God among the people group called .

female. And see, we are living in a strategic time right now. I love what Vincent Synan says I quote it in my book, but it says that at strategic times in salvation history, at strategic time, sorry, that every strategic time in salvation history, God has chosen women. Women, God has chosen women and empowered them with his Holy Spirit to carry out his extraordinary will in extraordinary ways.

And then he points to women in scripture and women throughout history and how God has chosen them to fulfill every kind of assignment in the church and in society. And these women are to be the prototypes of all God's women. Are you hearing me women of God? Listen, Listen, no matter what the, the discussions are right now in various, various forms in the church about, can women do this?

Can women do this? Are women, listen, the truth of the matter is that in scripture, God has chosen women to bring shifts whenever there is crisis. You can find, just, just go to scripture and look for it in that way. Have that mindset and look for it in that way. And you'll see that every single time, listen, Rahab came on the scene when Jericho needed to be overcome.

You know, the, the unnamed wise woman in Sychar, she was, she was useful in throwing over the head of the enemy of all of Israel. Esther was raised up. Mary was raised up. Abigail was raised up. There's so many women and you see it every time. Listen, Ruth and Naomi brought a revival in a time when there was faithful, faithlessness in Israel.

We, we always talk about Deborah and Jael but do we really see that the nation is in crisis and they bring a shift, they bring women have a pivotal role to play when revival comes because women see what's missing, they create new ways to bring solutions and healing and prosperity to families and cities and nation throughout history.

Women have been abolitionists, social entrepreneurs, solutionaries, activists, revivalists, missionaries, revolutionaries. They have been apostles and prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers in scripture, in the early church, throughout church history. We have a part to play in what God is about to do on the earth right now.

Twanna Henderson: You are preaching, sister.

Kim M. Maas: I'm so excited. I am so excited.

Twanna Henderson: And, you know, all those women, yeah, are just so major. And I always think about the woman at the well, I mean, I mean, we could just talk on and on and on, and I do study as of many of the women in scripture to give us confidence in God's purpose for us.

Talk about how these stories transform your own view of biblical womanhood.

Kim M. Maas: Oh, I love that. , biblical womanhood to me is that God calls women. This is what I discovered in scripture. Listen, with all the confusion over whether women can do ministry and all of that, all we need to do is go back to scripture.

Start at Genesis and go through Revelation and see how God used women. God called women. God gifts women. God celebrates women. God backs women up, empowers them, fills them with his spirit, and then uses them by the Holy Spirit to highlight our worth and our value. He sees us. He loves us. He restores us.

He's with us. He does not place limits on what He can call us to do.

It's up to him. It says in Hebrews 1:3. It says that that the Holy Spirit has been poured out and then he distributes his gifts according to his will, not according to gender. The great commissions in scripture in Matthew and in Mark, when he commands us to go into all the world and preach the gospel, to baptize them in the name of Jesus Christ, to teach them what he taught his disciples, to lay hands on the sick and see them recovered.

To casts out demons to speak in other tongues. That was given to male and female just like in the garden in Genesis 1 to 3. He gave the great commission about, about stewarding the earth and taking dominion over all that God created to male and female. He does not place limits on us according to his own will.

He sends us out in the harvest fields to advance his kingdom. Jesus has made us all to be a kingdom of priests. According to one Peter, we are all part of that holy royal priesthood. And in revelations, John says that we are made a kingdom of priests to serve God and reign over all the earth with Christ.

We women are anointed and appointed for it this time. And so this is what God is doing with women. And what is biblical womanhood? Biblical womanhood is about, God created mankind to be male and female in his image, and he wants us to lead like a girl. He wants us to do everything that he has called us to do, and we are free to do it because he fills us with his Holy Spirit and sends us out according to his will.

Twanna Henderson: That is so good. You know, one of the things that you write that I thought was just amazing, you said that it's in the dead places that God brings revival. How do you see this in culture today?

Kim M. Maas: I think that, I think there's a lot of dead places in culture today. You know, I think that there are so many, There are so many places that need revival and need reform.

You know, Spurgeon, Spurgeon said it this way. He said that revival is to live again, to receive again a life, which has almost expired to rekindle a flame into a vital spark that has nearly been distinguished. We have to understand that that revival comes when things are dead. So when we look around us at our families, we look around us at our, at our

at our jobs. We look around us at ministry. We look around at the church, which there's so much exposure going on right now for things that never should happen in the church. And then we look around even at our nations and we see a deadness there. It's not time for us to become hopeless. It's time for us to stand up and say, you know, I can't, I can't have a miracle without an impossible situation.

I can't have a healing without a sickness or a brokenness. I can't have revival unless something has died. Right now. We are, we are considered a post Christian culture. 80 percent of those who feel who say that they are Christian are biblically illiterate, meaning they have never read their Bible.

Suicide and anxiety, depression, all time high. People are trying to satisfy themselves to comfort themselves to cope at an unprecedented rate with every kind of entertainment, drug, sex, and more. There is this pervasive narcissism, false prophecy, sexual immorality, perversion everywhere, including inside the church.

And it's, , every place on social media. The next generation seems to have left the church in droves. Denominations are splitting. So are there dead places? Oh, yes, they are. And you know what I say to that? Hallelujah. Because it's a setup for revival. Listen, so many people during the pandemic, right? They realized that their money can't save them.

Their doctors can't heal them. Their government cannot save them. Nothing can save them. It's time for the church to say, I know. I know who can save you. Jesus can save you. It's a setup for evangelism. It's a setup for the harvest to come in and that means revival. That's what's going on right now. And I think it's an exciting time to be alive.

And it's especially if you are a woman, listen, if you're a woman, you have this, innate ability that God has placed in us as women to look at all of society like a family, look at our nations like a family, look at our cities like it's a family and see what's missing. Listen, child, protective child services needs reform.

Who's going to do that? You know, our educational system needs reform. Who's going to do that? Our healthcare system needs reform. Who's going to do that? Women have always done these kinds of things. They, they, they got together and they ended child labor. When six year olds were going to the mines and working for 12 hours and becoming slaves in households because families didn't understand.

And they put in place child labor laws. And then they created something called. Kindergarten. Women did that. Women did that in our country. It's time, it's time again for women to rise up, receive the dreams of God, and reform many of these things happening in our nation. That's what revival is all about, and you can do it.

Twanna Henderson: I believe that, you know, there is so much, so much in this book again, Finding our Muchness: Inheriting audacious boldness. I love, love, love, love, love how you wrote about, the vision that you had of your mother passing the blessing or mantle of leadership to you. How important is it that as women, that we pass this blessing of leadership permission, if you will, to our daughters and our granddaughters and, and even to our sons and our grandsons.

Kim M. Maas: Yeah. thank you for bringing that up. That is one of the most precious, encounters. That the Lord has ever given me and, and do, do I have time to tell a little bit about it? And, and I will answer your question that way. I, I was in Brazil, nearly two years ago. I go frequently to Brazil.

I've traveled the nations to preach and, you know, And some pastors were on my missions team. They were from other nations and they asked if they could lay hands on me and pray. And I said, of course, of course, you know, cause when you lead ministry, you're usually the one praying for people. And so they laid hands on me and I fell out under the power of the Holy spirit.

And I had a vision, hadn't had a vision for a long time. My precious mother, died eight years before a terrible cancer. And, and my family, I am the charismatic Pentecostal in my family. , my mother is not, but she was a true believer of Jesus. But because of that, you know, in our family line, we didn't understand about the passing of mantles or the passing of a mother's and father's blessing to the next generation. And so we, we didn't do those things in our family. And so, I have this vision and in it, Jesus comes to me. I hear the voice of Jesus. I know it's Jesus. And he says, Kimmy, someone here wants to see you.

And you know, I'm thinking it's going to be my heroes, you know, Mariah Woodworth, editor or Aimee Semple Mcpherson, Kathryn Kuhlman, you know, and, , And I'm waiting and I'm anticipating and it's my, it's my mom and it's my mother and , she's so full of life and she's so full of glory and she's so full of a joy that I haven't seen on my mother for years because she was so sick and and I knew that it was real.

It's real. She was alive. So she came and she put her hands on my face and she kissed me. And as she stared into my eyes, I felt this passing of the mother's blessing and a passing of a matriarchal mantel. And, , and it changed me. I knew it was some kind of shift in my life and that I was to become a mother in the faith and like a Deborah, like a Jael, you know, mothers in the faith.

And, And when I went to a church and I was speaking one day, I was at a church and I relayed this, this vision and I asked who, who needs, who feels like they need a mother's blessing. You haven't received a mother's blessing either because, your mother didn't know. You know, and died before you could receive it or, or your mother, , was not a good mother, you know, or you suffered abuse at your mother's hand or, you know, or these kinds of things.

And, and I asked if you feel like you need a mother's blessing because I want to release a real mother's blessing as a mother in the faith from the Lord. Would you stand? And over 90 percent of the congregation stood men and women. And I knew in that moment, this is the women's work in the church that's missing, you know, part of the women's work in the church that's missing because of the way we have misunderstood scripture because of the way we haven't understood the real value of man

and women being a blessing in the church and leading side by side so that the fullness of the image of God can be seen and felt and received by God's people. So I release the blessing, of course, and, , It is so important that women, that we, whatever that we carry. Listen, it's all throughout my book as well.

You can feel it, especially in the story of the five sisters, you know, what they did and what they affected, released it, released what they did from, I'm not going to give it away cause you need to read it. It's so amazing. Release it from generation to generation, to generation, what they did in ancient Israel, do you know is still used in the courts in our day?

In our day. And so you never know that what you are doing, what you are called to do, it's not just for you. It's for the generations coming behind you. And not just in your family, but in the church and in society, in culture. You just never know. And you have to remember that. And this part of why it's so important for you to get your muchness back and get on with the work of God in your life because you are doing something that you don't even understand is going to affect the boys and the girls coming up behind you.

I know that I am. And Twanna, you know, too, that for our lives as leaders in the church, we know the women who are watching us, they're watching. How do you handle adversity? How do you handle crisis? How do you get through those dark times when you yourself feel like, I just don't know if I can go on. This is so hard.

This is so hard. It's so difficult. There's so much opposition. There's so much loss. You know, we all face it. We all might look good on the platform. But listen, behind the scenes, we are struggling and facing real things because it's part of the human experience to suffer, but how I do it, I have many young women who are watching me.

I have women all over the world who are watching me. How does she handle this? And will she still be real? Will she still be touchable? Will she still be human? You know, or will I put on a plastic face and say, Oh, bless God, everything is good. You know, listen, we have to, we have to be real, right? We got to be real.

It's hard. It's hard, but it's so good. So it's so, so good.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. And this is so good. How can people connect with Kim Maas and pick up their own copy of Finding Our Muchness?

Kim M. Maas: Oh, I hope that you will. I hope that you will. I wrote it with all of my heart. I wrote it with everything that I understand about scripture, all of my studies, and I've looked into all of the theology.

So I, I have, I worked with a a renowned theologian. He read out every time I wrote a chapter, he read it to make sure that the theology was correct. It was so important to me. But you can find it, findingourmuchness. com. You can go there. You can go to Kim Maas, K I M M a a s dot com and find it there.

You can go to Amazon Barnes and Noble. , you can go to Baker book house. com to order the book. You can reach me, , at hello at Kim Maas. com. K I M mAAS, , hello@kimMaas.com. You can find me on Facebook, of course, at Kim Maas Ministries. Move forward. Now. You can find me on Instagram, Kim Maas Ministries.

You can find me on my YouTube channel, Kim Maas Ministries. I have a TV show and podcasts, and you can find all the recordings there. You can, you can look me up, on Twitter. at PK Maas. , so I'm all over all of those places and I would love to connect with you and I would love for you to get my book and my other two books as well.

Twanna Henderson: Yes. Well, Kim, this time has been so empowering. As I said, we definitely cannot cover everything, but, and that's why everybody needs to get the book.

Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Twanna Henderson. Be blessed of the Lord.