Raising victors, not victims

Twanna Henderson: Welcome to T Time: Spiritual Conversations For, With and About Women. I'm your host, Twanna Henderson. And I want to remind you to like this podcast and share it with your family and your friends. Well, we have another exciting guest with us on today. Our guest is Barb Winters. Barb is a pastor's wife near Orlando, Florida, and parent of four children. She writes and speaks to encourage, support and offer support to parents of children struggling with pornography. She is a certified sexual risk avoidance specialist, who is also a real mom who has dealt with a real problem facing families today, including having a child who is a recovering porn addict. She is the founder of Hopefulmom.net. Barb, welcome to T Time.

Barb Winters: I'm so blessed to be here. Thanks so much for having me on here.

Twanna Henderson: Well, I'm glad to have you. Today's topic is definitely one that we don't talk about a lot, but it is so needed. And I know that the ministry that you have was birthed out of your pain that you experienced with your son. So just start by just telling us why you started hopefulmom.net.

Barb Winters: I love to tell my story. So yeah, it's birthed from our personal story. So we moved to Florida about six years ago to start a church. My husband is a pastor, like you said, and go Converge. Yay, yay! And so we were here and we just moved to Florida and we were enjoying the sunshine and the beautiful surroundings. And my husband and I had taken a walk to just kind of see what was going on and as we rounded the corner to cross the busy street. To come back to our house. We saw our son who was 14 at the time just standing on our yard in hysterics. He was jumping up and down. He was motioning to us. He was crying hysterically. We just saw him and our hearts dropped. You couldn't figure out you know, is his sister lying in a pool of blood? You know, is the house on fire? What is going on? And so when we finally got to him, I could barely understand what he was saying. I could hear porn, I could hear police, I could hear arrest. And so when I finally deciphered the code, we found out that he had been watching pornography. And a bogus warning had popped up on his screen saying that if he didn't pay money, they were gonna send the police to arrest him. Yeah, and so he was panicked. And we're glad that he came to us. But this was not in our radar, we had no idea this was going on in our home. So we had all the feels, we we felt confused, shock, anger, guilt, like a bad mom.

Twanna Henderson: 14 years old.

Barb Winters: Absolutely. You know, we had just literally literally, you know, my, my heart mom just just dropped, you know. And then we were standing on our lawn with the grass green and the sky blue. And these flowers blooming around us. And yet, I just remembered that moment, the moment that my mom life changed, it took a completely different trajectory. So we put some boundaries in place, we put some filters on, we, you know, started helping him we talked with him that sort of thing. And we did you know all the things that parents do. But a year and a half later, we found out he was still involved with pornography, but at that point, he decided he wanted to get out of it. So that made a big difference. But in the meantime, I was having trouble. I was struggling because you know, I'm a pastor's wife. And because of the stigma of it, and the fact that we were trying to plant this church, we just didn't feel like we could tell anybody. And truthfully, that doesn't really matter. No Mom, you know, wants to tell their friends or their family, anything like that. So, you know, it's not as if I could turn to my best friend over coffee and say, Hey, you know, my son watches porn. How about yours? Just not conversations we have, unfortunately. But you know, we were not immune from these problems. And so, through the years as we helped him, I was struggling to find help for myself. I was googling support groups or, or just trying to find you know as a parent, what am I dealing with? And how do I walk through this? I did have one friend thankfully, who was kind of a lifeline for me. She lived out of state and I could call her and she could talk me off the ledge, so to speak. To remind me that I wasn't crazy and that I was making right choices. But I say all that because at some point, um, I read, while I was doing research, I read that 92% of boys and 63% of girls are exposed to pornography before age 18. And that statistic is actually really old. So, um, when I read that, I thought, my gosh, that is a lot of kiddos. And so why aren't we talking about this. And if all those kids are being exposed to pornography, that means all those parents have children that are watching porn. And so those poor parents out there are all struggling like I was just to try and figure it all out and figure out how to help their kids at the same time help themselves. So I decided that I wanted to help parents. And you know, I have a little bit of a background of of helping ladies within the church anyway. So I'm not it's not a foreign concept to me to counsel a little bit, do some discipling, that sort of thing. So I decided to start hopefulmom.net at first in a pen name but then last summer, my son gave me permission to write in my given name. So that's, that's how I started hopefulmom.net.

Twanna Henderson: So those statistics are staggering. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And it is because we don't really talk about that. So I mean, who who is pornography affecting?

Barb Winters: Pornography is affecting everyone. There's no doubt about it. That is a spiritual issue, for sure. But it's also a public health issue. So we live in a society that says porn, either you're on one of two sides, you either think pornography is okay, and what's the big deal? A lot of society believes that. Or we just don't understand the pervasiveness of it, which was where I was at, I had no idea how easily accessible it was. I mean, it's free, it's in their pockets, basically. And I just thought that since my kids grew up in a Christian household, we homeschooled, I thought, well, they know Christian principles. They live in a Christian home, they're saved. We've talked about the dangers of what goes on on the internet once, and so they're good to go. I just had no idea. So pornography is actually affecting all of us.

Twanna Henderson: And, you know, it's interesting that you say, you know, sometimes we think that we are kind of, you know, we've insulated our kids, you know, you know, homeschool they are, you know, they are they've been in the church, all these different things. And, you know, we've got this relationship where we understand them, they understand us, did your relationship with your son, was it affected by this whole issue? And if so, how? How was it?

Barb Winters: Yeah, it was definitely affected. Um, I mean, on the one hand, I was so grateful that he felt comfortable coming to us, especially the second time, but on the other hand, I had a hard time interacting with him. I grew up in an era and you probably did to where we were told that people who watch pornography are like, slimy, you know, they're the ones that go in the back end the videos store. And so I had this hard time marrying these thoughts of who my son really was. Because on the one hand, I was thinking, is he a monster? And then I had the guilt going on of like, Oh, you know, you're not supposed to think of your children like that. Um, you know, and on the other hand, I knew him as this loving, funny, very personable, smart boy, and I just could not figure out how, how the mesh these two thoughts together. So I took it to God, and I was just praying about it. And, you know, dealing with grief and anger and all that as I was working through some of that, I decided that he wasn't the monster that I thought he was. Instead, he's a victim. He's a victim of society that says this is okay. He was a victim even though because he had asked an older trusted teen, actually to see a photograph that was his first exposure to it and when he was probably nine or 10, and that teen, in my opinion, should have said no. So you know, he was a victim of possible you know, on the edge sort of sexual abuse and, and so I you know, finally when I thought to myself, okay, he's not this two dimensional child. He's not just all good. He's not just all bad. He's not a monster. Instead, he's he's really a victim. But in Christ's eyes, he's a potential Victor. And so my husband really helped me to understand that, that, you know, he's got Christ in his heart. And we, he wants to, especially after he wanted to change and break free of this addiction that he had, I started to see him as a potential Victor. And that made a huge difference in our relationship. Because once I could see him like that, then I could come alongside him easier and and really help him through the trouble that he was having.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, yeah. I love that, him as a victor. You know, I know you have four kids, where did he fall in the line of your kids? Was he the youngest, the oldest? And how did that impact the others, if it did,

Barb Winters: Sure, he's our third in four. So we have three boys and then a girl. So, um, by this point, by the time we found out about it, our older ones were out of the house, they were, you know, in college and doing their thing. So, um, but it brought up a lot of stuff, you know, I had to go back to the older boys and and find out what was going on. And if, if and how they played a part in, in all of this. And at first, I was really concerned about our daughter who was younger than him. I don't know how you are. But as a mom, I'm always trying to protect and I'm always worried about what's going on. And so we really tried to protect her. And, and truthfully, the first time we found out that scene on the lawn, we didn't understand how bad it was, because he lied to us. And so we kept it from our daughter, we didn't want to make, we didn't want it to taint her view of him. And so we decided not to say anything. But the second time when he came clean, I really felt like God was saying, you need to bring this into the light. And so we decided to disclose it to his sister. And we, with his permission, we had told him look, it's time for us to bring this into the light. And part of that is, is being able to tell people what's going on in your life. And so we can continue to protect all of you. And but everybody knows and understands within our household. What's going on?

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, and there's definitely something about just exposing, you know, sin, you know, to kind of break that hold. I know, they are probably parents who are listening who have tweens and teens, and haven't really talked with their children about the effects of pornography, or they may even be new parents, you know, what do you say to those parents?

Barb Winters: I say to those parents, let's break down those walls and those barriers, let's get rid of this stigma that we can't talk to it and speak about it. So learn from my generations mistakes, talk about pornography and its effects early. And there are a couple of books that I recommend on my resource page on my website, but make it a part of everyday conversations. So as soon as, as soon as they're able to understand things start using proper body parts start talking about private versus public parts of your body. And as soon as it um, you shouldn't hand a device to a child, unless they understand they might run across some of this stuff. I mean, I just talked to I just talked to a mom the other day who had a four year old and she just set her phone down so they could watch a YouTube video. And as soon as that video stopped, another one came up that was not appropriate. And so thankfully, her four year old brought her the phone saying, hey, this, this is happening. Um, but when, you know, I say we need to talk about it. We need to normalize the conversation, which means being able to say the words pornography, porn, sexual activity, talking about, you know, body parts using correct terminology, that sort of thing.

Twanna Henderson: And, you know, Barb, for some people who are listening and moms, I mean, they just have no idea of how I mean, they just, it's like, I just can't do that. I mean, I just, you know, what I'm saying is these kind of taboo topics and it's like, there's no way I can talk about sex or talk about these things with my kids, particularly, you know, being somebody who's in the church. How do I do that and you know, I can see that being a barrier for people but it is so important to realize that we have to be able to, as you said, to, really be able to broach those topics, you know, in an age appropriate way. But to not to shed light on those things. Because that that is so crucial. And, you know, there may be somebody who has discovered that their child has been exposed to pornography. Um, you know, kind of walk them through that.

Barb Winters: Sure. Well, first of all, I tell parents not to panic, um, but that might be too late at that point. Um, you know, and, and I had all the feels at the beginning of that, all of that, too. So, you know, don't be so hard on yourself. But most parents want a quick fix. Mm hmm. So the first thing I say is, there is no quick fix. So settle in for the long haul, be willing to understand that there's going to be ups and downs, there's going to be some setbacks. And so when you understand that up front, you're not so upset when when they happen. Because if there's a real problem, it didn't happen overnight. So it can't be fixed overnight. So I tell parents to pause, pray and process. So take that pause, take a minute. And if you're discovering it, at the at the moment that you discover it, it's okay to say, well, I'm not going to address this right now because I need some minutes to think about it and decide how we're going to deal with this. So take that time to pause, and then pray about it. I mean, God's huge, God's a big God, he can handle all this, he can tell us what the next steps are. And then process because we don't know what we know and what we don't know. So sometimes kids are just curious. Well, all the time, they're curious, but sometimes they, they, they've looked for it, because they're curious, they found the answer. And, and that's the end of that. But then sometimes, like my child, they are curious, they look, and then they're hooked. And so it keeps going. And so you know, decide what you know, and what you don't know. Because what you don't know might be just as important, because you want to make sure you'll address that at some point. And then just tell your children I am on your side, we are going to together combat this, because it's my job as your parent to protect you. And because I love you, I'm going to put some boundaries into place. And I always tell parents, you know, let's, we're not punishing our kids, we're protecting them. And there's a difference. And when we tell them that they're going to be more open to what we do, right. So put, put filters on, create the boundaries, open that line of communication, the most important portion of this is to make sure that our kids feel comfortable talking with us when we open that line of communication. And just to go back a little bit about you know, it being an awkward conversation. It sure is, and it sure is and I just I mean I it took me a long time to say the words porn and pornography without stumbling over my tongue. So if that's an issue, look in the mirror and say the word six or eight times because let's just get comfortable, and really the only way we can get comfortable is by doing it over and over.

Twanna Henderson: That is so real. Because I'm sure there are people listening, you know, trying to figure out gosh, how does she become so wise at this? How does she feel comfortable at this? But you know, but how do you how did your faith help you through this issue with with you and with your son?

Barb Winters: Oh, it was Center. Our faith is you know, just everything to us. So, thankfully, you know, we already knew Christ, he already knew Christ. And the Christian practices and rhythms that I put into place years ago really helped sustain me during these, my darkest times. So I mean, there were many times where I was just going throughout my day trying to check off my my mom homeschool mom to do list and then all of a sudden I just be breaking down in tears. So I find myself at my bedside praying with my Bible open journaling. But probably the most important practice that I had learned throughout all this was to to forgive.

Twanna Henderson: So who were you forgiving? Were you forgiving yourself, were you forgiving him? What did that forgiveness process look like?

Barb Winters: Sure. Well, I was angry at every person possible. I was angry at my, I was angry at my son, obviously, not just because he had watched pornography, but because he had lied to me and betrayed me. That hurt almost worse than than the pornography. So I needed to forgive him for that I needed to forgive myself, or at least come into agreement with God that those sins had been paid already. That, you know, because obviously, there was something I had done incorrectly. Now I you know, and I needed to, to recognize that there was a portion that that I needed to take blame for so to speak, and I needed to seek forgiveness for that.

Twanna Henderson: And what do you think that was, I mean, let's talk about that. Because that, I mean, what were you taking ownership for?

Barb Winters: I was taking ownership for mostly for being ignorant. For not understanding what was out there. When I handed my son a device, because he didn't watch porn on his phone, he watched it on an iPod. So when I handed that to him, I had no idea. I had no idea that it connected to the Internet, and that he could access those things from. I had no idea that when we allowed computers in bedrooms, that that was really a dumb idea. So I had to forgive myself for that. And then I had to, I mean, for me, also, it was a matter of not not having the conversations. So there, there's a fine line there. Because, you know, I can't walk around in the false guilt of not knowing what I didn't know. But at the same time, I was responsible for his care. And so I needed to seek God's forgiveness for, you know, just not not paying attention and not knowing what was going on. And then I was mad at his dad, so I needed to forgive his dad. And, you know, that was trivial compared to all the other people I was mad at. But, you know, part of me was like, this was your job. So, you know, I walked through that forgiveness. And then, you know, at the end of all that, I realized that who I'm really mad at, and is the porn industry, for allowing this to happen, and even in society for not talking about it for not being aware, for making it a taboo subject and for not understanding that, you know, we're pushing it under the rug, not not getting how pervasiveness it is.

Twanna Henderson: So, so then how did you become then from that a certified sexual risk avoidance specialist? And what is that that's a mouthful?

Barb Winters: I get that question a lot. So probably a couple of years ago, a director of an organization that's in that's local here approached my husband and me about me being a facilitator. And what they do is they go into schools, and we talk about risky behaviors. So there's five risky behaviors that we discussed, two, which are sexual activity and violence. So we talked to sixth graders through ninth graders about how to avoid these risky behaviors. And then the process of getting trained for that position. I went to a conference to to become certified to teach these behaviors. So that's how I, I got that title. And we go into schools, we talk to them and I'm always sure to link sexual activity to pornography, and we talk about it openly in the classroom, we talk about the link to human trafficking and online grooming. So that's it really is part of my wheelhouse. I love going in there and talking to the kiddos and see their see the um, when they make the connections seeing their face, you know, that aha moment of Oh, you mean when I'm watching porn over here? This is what it's doing to my brain. And this is how I'm contributing to human trafficking. I didn't, I didn't realize that.

Twanna Henderson: Isn't it amazing how God can take our experiences and, you know, work those things out for good, you know, to help others and, and educate and all those wonderful things.

Barb Winters: Yeah, yeah, he's a he's an amazing God. Yeah, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't change those experiences for anything. And I've seen how my son has grown through it also. He's my hero.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah. So has he had an opportunity to share with I mean, how old is he now?

Barb Winters: He's 20.

Twanna Henderson: Okay. So how has that changed him that whole process and just his his his spiritual walk?

Barb Winters: Yeah, it's really drawn him closer to the Lord. He, he attends a Christian College, which, you know, may or may not mean a lot to some people, but he really has cultivated that relationship that he has with Christ. He, he talks with his friends a lot about various problems that they all have, including how they are attracted to pornography, because it's, it's a big thing. It's a real deal. He's, he's, he has run Bible studies and groups at his college. So he's really, he's gonna, he's an up and coming leader.

Twanna Henderson: He sounds like he is. And you know, and unfortunately, we live in a society now where, you know, so many things have become just the norm. I mean, we particularly as relates to sexual exploitation, and, you know, all these different things that we've made, okay? That we, you know, we've condone these things we, we know, you don't have to, to get a device, you can just turn your television now, and, you know, this is everywhere, but it doesn't mean it is okay? And that the church universal really has to tackle this and deal with this. If we're going to save our kids, and help them not to go down this slippery slope of, of sexual sin.

Barb Winters: Right? Yeah, that's, and that's why I talk because I want to break down those walls. And I want the next mom to not be afraid to stand up and say, my son's watching porn, and I need help.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, yeah. So then, just give us some words of encouragement for for parents, you know. Whether they are, I mean, there may be parents that are thinking, Oh, that, little Johnny will never do that. You know. And, you know, and those who are like, you know what, he's in that room with that door closed a lot. And I never really thought about what may be going on. Y

Barb Winters: Yeah, yeah.

Twanna Henderson: Just some words of encouragement. For parents.

Barb Winters: Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So if you find out that your child is watching pornography, I'm saying you are not alone. There are a lot of parents out there. And also, this does not define you, nor does it define your child. Because that was a big issue that I had, I was like, oh, my gosh, I have broken him for the rest of his life. So but but that's not true. Their story's not over yet. And our story is not over yet. And we need to keep that end goal in mind. So for me, the end goal is for my child actually be an adult, a healthy, mature adult who contributes to society and who walks after the spirit. So yeah, their story's not over yet. So keep going. You know, you might have setbacks, like I said earlier. But that that's, that's not the end of the story.

Twanna Henderson: Yeah, yeah. And I think that is encouraging to know that, that it just may be one page, it may just be one chapter, what is the entire book, you may be listening to this today and really want to get more information or support with this topic. You can contact Barb at hopefulmom619@gmail.com. That's hopefulmom619@gmail.com. Or you can visit her website at hopefulmom.net. You may even want to invite her to speak, you know if I can say that maybe to come speak at a group or you know, a moms group or school group or whatever. I think it will be phenomenal because this is an area that we really need to address. Well, Barb, there are moms or parents or guardians, listening to this and some never even thought about this being an issue. And some may be struggling with how to you know what to do with their child who's been exposed? Can you just pray take a moment and just pray for them? Before we close?

Barb Winters: Sure. Absolutely. Father, we thank you for who you are. We thank you for your son. We thank you for the opportunity to just walk after the spirit every day. We thank you that your mercies are new every day. And Lord, I do lift up the parents of children who may be watching pornography. And if the parents don't know it, then I pray that you'll bring it into the light. And Father, I pray that you'll give parents wisdom and discernment and understanding and courage to be able to speak to their children about the dangers of internet. And Lord I just I just want to thank you for Twanna and her ministry and I pray that you'll continue to speak in her and through her to other parents. In Jesus name we pray, Amen.

Twanna Henderson: Amen, Barb it was so good seeing you again. And thank you for being a guest on T Time and to all of our listeners. I want to remind you to like this podcast and I look forward to just connecting with you