Surprising truths about relationships and how to find joy

Twanna: Welcome to T Time, spiritual conversations for with and about women. I'm your host, Twanna Henderson and I want to remind you to like this podcast and share it with your family and your friends. Well, I am so excited about our guest for today. Our guest is Shaunti Feldhahn. Shanti is a popular speaker, best selling author, and groundbreaking social researcher. Her findings have been featured in media as diverse as Focus on the Family, Family Life Today, The New York Times and Cosmo. With a Master's degree from Harvard University, Shaunti has worked on Wall Street and Capitol Hill. Now she applies her analytical skills to illuminating surprising truths about relationships. She and her husband Jeff live in Atlanta and with their two children there. Shanti Welcome to T Time.

Shaunti: I'm so glad to be with you! It has been a few years.

at we've been experiencing in: 2020

Shaunti: Exactly what we need. Isn't it?

Twanna: Exactly what we need! So let's let's just kind of dive right in. I want to ask you, in light of the current culture, why do you even think that this topic is so timely?

Shaunti: Well, hashtag: 2020

Twanna: Exactly.

ea. I wrote the devotional in: 2019

Twanna: Yeah, yeah. So is it even possible to feel positive when we're going through difficult things like, you know, economic issues, a lot of people have lost their jobs, you know, trying to juggle work and virtual school like I am, you know, with our kids, and then health problems that people are experiencing with COVID-19. So is it even possible to feel positive? Right now?

Shaunti: Well, this is a good news. And this is the amazing news, really, when you think about it, which is that if we're, if we are depending for happiness, on stuff going right, I've got news for you. Like, there might be an issue. But thankfully, joy is not the same as happiness that is based on circumstances. And it is powerful. When you realize I realized, looking at, if we could just dive back for just a second to the Christmas, the birth announcement, right, where all the angels come out and they say, you know, come we bring you good news of great joy that will be for all people. It's interesting. When you look at the passage, it's actually sort of a double meaning. It's saying the news of Jesus's birth will bring people joy, like the news is a joyful thing but it is also saying that Jesus has come to bring us joy. And I realized somewhere along the way, that you know that the feeling that you have at Christmas time, kind of from, you know, some people go through difficult seasons at Christmas, but in general, you just have that sense that like, real life is holding its breath and you've got this sense of this wonder and delight and joy that's kind of just molecules in the air and you just feel it right. That's the feeling of joy that God wants us to have all year long.

Twanna: Yeah, yeah. And how great it would be to be able to have that and know that you are a social researcher, and you found eight elements to find joy based on science and scripture. What are just a few of those that you can share with our listeners?

Shaunti: Well, one of them that I just I think it's so foundational and you see it, it's so fascinating when I did the sort of the study on this, because there's actually quite a bit of neuroscience and neurobiology and other research on this topic of how you find joy. And, of course, the the bible talks a lot about it as well. And it's really cool to see that all the scientists have found what the Bible said all along. Imagine that, but but one of the key elements that you see in both, both scripture and science is the incredible importance of choosing and practicing gratitude. And it's, it is one of those things that we we know, it's important, but we don't necessarily know what that means, or how to how to do it, like we teach our kids. I don't know about you. But like, I would always talk to my kids about having an attitude of gratitude. And it's easy to tell our kids that and go. What does that mean? Let me give you an example. If you don't mind, because this is a, I think, a perfect example for this. A lot of the reason that people are struggling with joy today is the division in the nation and families, you know, or maybe it's just a personal thing, you're having a hard time with your spouse or, you know, whatever it is. And we know especially as women, if our relationships are at odds, oh, like, it's, it's like nothing's right with the world, until that's resolved. And it's, it's interesting, there's actually an example of that in the Bible. Where if you look at Philippians four, and you see where the Apostle Paul talks about this interpersonal conflict, this personality conflict that was happening between two women in the church, so I don't know who these people are, but it's like the women's ministry director and the childrens ministry director of First Community Church of Phillipi, or whatever. But but it's fascinating to see that Paul, he uses this huge chunk of this letter to tell these women to get along. And he tells the church help these women get along. And when you say, how do you do that? Because he says rejoice, right? Have joy, rejoice, as part of the here's what I want you to do. And then he repeats it, exactly. And you and you ask, at least for me, I really asked myself when I see that, like, how do you do that? Like, how do you have joy when you're having this contentious situation with a friend or in your marriage? Or this is a persecuted church? Right? Like they're being thrown to the lions? Like how do you? How do you have joy in that situation? And he says, Okay, here's how you do it. Here's what the prescription is, I want you to think on whatever is lovely. I want you to think about whatever is excellent. Think about whatever is worthy of praise, rather than, you know, what's worthy of driving you crazy. And that is a that is a really, really crucial finding of neuroscience as well.

Twanna: Wow, wow. You know, because how we think, you know, our brains are so amazing. And a lot of times just how we what we tell ourselves, you know, and the messaging that we tell ourselves, can just determine so much in terms of how we process our our joy in those things. And have you found that sometimes we sabotage our joy?

Shaunti: Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, one of the and I'll give you sort of the reverse of that, because one of the ways that we sabotage is to do the reverse of practicing gratitude. It is it is interesting how much we express discontent and it's sometimes it's just, "my husband's driving me crazy". Or, you know, somebody says something on social media and you blast it back, right, like, "Oh, I got the perfect comeback" or whatever it is. We we don't realize that there's actually a myth that all of us have bought into that venting is healthy. And we've all believed this, I certainly had that. You know, it's a little it's better to vent a little bit of steam. Out of the kettle, you know, so that so that the pot doesn't explode. I was actually doing an event, a virtual event for a group of university students at a big public university, and, you know, obviously, these days, everything's virtual. And so I got a chance to ask them some polling questions, you know, on this, this virtual webinar. And I gave them an example of a situation where they felt like they hadn't been treated well, things were unfair, whatever it was. And I said, What is the most healthy response to this situation and 88% of these university students said that they think the most healthy response is to vent a little bit to a friend like to go "ra ra ra, I'm so frustrated," you know, express that dissatisfaction. Well, guess what? It's actually inaccurate, neurologically. And the neuroscientists have found that when we do that, it actually just activates it turns on this interconnected anger system in the brain and so one neuroscientists said the better analogy isn't venting, like you actually have to get rid of the word because venting is the idea of expressing it is healthy and it's not. He said, the better analogy isn't that you're venting steam. He said, the better analogy is that you're turning up the heat under the pot.

Twanna: Oh, I like that. I like that.

Shaunti: That's what sabotages our joy so often, and we don't realize until we try to stop it. How often we do that.

Twanna: Yeah, yeah. And that, you know, you that's so powerful, because, you know, as women, and I hate to say this, but you know, as women, we I mean, we we are communicators, and we like to talk. And when things are difficult when things are stressful, we'd like to vent. Yeah. And so what you said is so major, I hope everybody heard that.

Shaunti: Well, I know some people are probably listening and going, but I, of course, I need to talk it through like, that's the way God made me which actually it is. And here's the distinction is there's nothing wrong with talking through something, thinking something through out loud, asking a friend for support, asking for prayer, like wanting to figure out how you feel about the fact that you're at odds with this friend, you know, there's nothing wrong with it if it truly is a encouraging, supportive, I need some advice here. Rather than venting, for the sake of the pleasure of going, "you would not believe with this person did to me." That's where it gets unhealthy. It turns out.

Twanna: Because there's no, no result. I mean, it's just, it's there. It's just there. And so it doesn't really produce anything and I think that's something that we often don't think about, that we're not really producing anything, we're just kind of, just kind of dumping.

Shaunti: And here's, here's what I hadn't realized. And I might have even, I'm thinking back a few years ago to when I did an event, an event for you guys on the kindness challenge. I might have even used this example at the time. But it actually what we don't realize is when we say these things, and we vent a little and we complain a little bit and whatever it actually is producing something. It's just not producing what we want. It's producing a feeling of discontent in us.

Twanna: Wow,

Shaunti: It's changing us.

Twanna: Wow. That's, that's major and so we almost have to really reprogram ourselves to produce something else, or or to be fruitful in our actions.

Shaunti: That's a great way of putting it Yeah, absolutely.

Twanna: So what really made you write this devotional about joy?

Shaunti: You know, it's, it's interesting. I, I have found in my research over the years, that there's a few things that are really, really central to us living kind of a thriving life, right, because the research that I've done is usually for like, you know, nonfiction relationship books. Which is great, you know, talking about relationships, whatever. And yet, there's a few things that are central threads, running through all the research and I realized that this desire, this longing for joy, is one of them, along with a complete confusion of not knowing how to get there.

Twanna: Yeah.

Shaunti: And so, that was the reason for A. doing the study and doing this devotional and B. doing it as a devotional, rather than as a nonfiction book, because, you know, this is one of those things that it's a little bit of life change that's needed every day. And a little bit of a step by step along a road where you're practicing one little manageable nugget each day. And and that really works better as a devotional.

Twanna: So what's really been your journey to unshakable wonder?

Shaunti: Oh gosh, Twanna, listen, this is one of these things that I have been so personally challenged by the Lord, candidly, especially this year, Holy smokes.We literally we released another book, we had one of those big research projects for a big relationship book that we've been working on for three years to help marriages around money. And, you know, why is money such a big issue in marriage, and we released this book, in March, and let me just give you a little free consulting, that you don't want to work for three years on a research project and a book and release it one week before a national emergency is declared, you know, little free consulting there, you know, it's not good timing. But at the same time, even though that could have thrown me for such a loop, I also realized, you know, it's not a coincidence that we release this at a time when, you know, we're talking about helping marriages around money, and suddenly, we have millions of people stuck at home worrying about money, right? And, and all the way along this year, I it's almost been like, God has been challenging me, yes, this thing that you're facing is challenging. Like, all of our speaking engagements were canceled, that's like two thirds of our revenue is canceled, like, how am I going to pay my staff? How am I going to, you know, how are we going to pay the mortgage? How are we going to do these other things that we have to do medically? And, and yet, okay, I felt like God has been challenging me to say, okay, yes, your your speaking engagements are canceled. What can you be glad about with that? What can you take joy in? And for me to go, well, I'm really enjoying actually being home on the weekends. And, you know, being able to sit around and talk with my friends. Have dinners on Saturday night, we've never been able to do that. I've always been at a women's event. And, and, you know, so each step along the way, it has been a bit, it has been a challenge where God has said, practice this. And it has made such a difference for me. So anyway, long answer to your question, but that's been my journey this year.

Twanna: No, that's great. I mean, it's just amazing how the Lord will just kind of put us in these situations and, you know, really allow us to look at things differently and kind of, you know, pump the brakes, if you will and just allow him to just work in us as we're trying to experience this thing called joy.

Shaunti: Well, one of the other pieces of the puzzle is it's experiencing it and then it's this is actually you asked about the eight elements, this is actually another one of the eight elements. It's experiencing it and then writing it down and remembering the thing that got you started, to rescue you in that situation to bring you into a good place even when things were hard to give you his peace even when you shouldn't have had peace like supernatural peace. And write it down and go, you know, Lord, help me remember this. Because that, that remembering and bringing things to mind. It's a lot easier for me, this is just an example. But when I get nervous about Okay, like, suddenly, where's the revenue going to come from? And okay, you know, we got another couple, we got some virtual speaking engagements in and, and going great. And okay, now we need some more. And I feel like the Lord says, chill, it's okay. Remember what I did over these last few months? Again, and really, that's a really important sort of next step. Yeah. And it's really humbling to, to really just be in that place where we are putting our total trust in him. Yeah, that's what he wants us to be.

Twanna: Can you tell our listeners where they can find this devotional?

Shaunti: Yeah, the devotional, it's the easiest place to go. I mean, you can get on Amazon. You can get it on any online bookseller, if you want more information about me or the work, you can go to Shaunti.com, which is shaunti.com

Twanna: Okay. All right. Well, I want to definitely tell everyone you know, as we are right before the holiday seasons, you definitely want to get this devotional what a gift it will be for yourself, and for those in your life, and right before the holidays, you can just go online and order it. And I know that it will be a blessing to you. I plan to get mine as well. And so just excited about that. Shaunti, many listeners are struggling with finding joy, particularly as we attempt to find new and creative ways to simply celebrate the Christmas season. As we wrap up, will you take a moment and just pray for those who seek to navigate to unshakable wonder, in an uncertain world?

Shaunti: Absolutely. Yeah. Let me pray. Lord, I am so grateful for my sister, and I'm so grateful for the chance to share about this joy that you want us to have. Lord, there's so many people listening that are dealing with difficult things right now or just dealing with a lot of uncertainty about what's going to happen in the future. Lord, we know that you hold the future. We don't know what the future holds, but we know that you hold it. We know that you want us to be characterized by this supernatural joy that does not change, depending on our circumstances. Lord, I pray you would help us to reach for that. I pray that you would help show us step by step how we get there. Lord, challenge us bring it to mind when we're doing things that are complaining or frustrating or sabotaging the joy in the wonder that you want us to have. Bring us up short. Help us look to you, Lord, I pray for all of the women who are listening to this, that this next month and this next year ahead would be a time that they absolutely, overwhelmingly, understand that you are in control, you love us and you have joy for us, no matter what helped us to live in that in Jesus name. Amen.

Twanna: Amen. Thank you so much. Again, you want to go to Shaunti's website to get this devotional and really any of her materials because she's got so much stuff and you definitely want to take advantage. It has been so good seeing you again. And just having you, it's been an honor to have you here on T Time. To all of our listeners. I look forward to connecting with you the next time and be blessed of the Lord.